I need advice/ideas. Shelly EM and two clamps cannot fit in my box full of wires. How would you install it? Separate on-wall box? How?
Thanks.
[Blockierte Grafik: https://i.ibb.co/qYbk50V/20220202-180832.jpg]
[Blockierte Grafik: https://i.ibb.co/189s8Cq/20220202-180941.jpg]
Power measurement on both Shellies when connected via real switch is also OK. Both are presenting correct values of pumps power consumption.
Oh! Forgot you‘ve tested this yet! But what is with power measurement in this test case?
I have to recheck because I cannot remember back then. To be precise, this is not power measurement on Shelly. Daikin has to lines, one is compressor and another is backup heater. On compressor it is always proper measurement from 500W till 3000W and on backup heater line now is 0W but it was constant 50W when backup heater is in idle.
Like I said, I assume that something is wrongly connected inside Daikin because neutral from pumps should go to pin 7 on X2M and live line to YC needs to go from pin 9 on X2M which is currently not the case. But this is topic for different discussion.
Otherwise, you could identify the wires coming from YC and Y2. YC is not an issue, cause it should be live potential. Y2 leads (according to your sketch) to both pins SW of the twins Shellies - with or without resistors. Thus, it should be easy to disconnect the wire(s) coming from Y2, attaching a switch instead, connecting live potential to the common side of the switch and to have a test…
It is easy to do so because I have identified Y2 wires because I needed to cut them to connect them to my Shellies. But I already tested your proposal with real switch and pumps were switched ON and OFF correctly with real switch and Shelly.
I already mentioned this early at the beginning of this topic in my post #7:
Sorry - regarding the pictures you've posted, I thought it was easy to get access to terminals YC and Y2! Forget it! And you should call an electrician to solve the issue, because you've problem in arranging the manual switch according a sketch. Sorry - this sounds embarrassing, but it would eventually save your life.
Hehe... it is not problem for me to read sketch but I see no point to connect only water pumps to separate switch without any connection to Daikin and to leave empty YC and Y2 pinc on PCB.
I will test it later and let you know. I can open Daikin and rearrange wires, no problem for me but it requires additional effort to reach Daikin motherboard. Pictures I sent were took previously when unit was open.
I am still suspecting that water pumps are not correctly wired within Daikin because they are not connected as it is on schemes within Daikin manul.
Thanks for sketch. My question was where to connect real switch? On my network directly to LIVE and NEUTRAL? If I do so, then my pumps will be fully separated from Daikin and Daikin will probably measure energy correctly because nothing will be connected to YC and Y2.
If my understanding is correct, I can try to perform such test but I need to open my Daikin which is quite a work.
A last test could be of interest: How is the mimic working if the wires at terminal Y2 are disconnected and connected instead to a simple switch? Other end of the switch connected with live potential.
Can you, please, elaborate this test more in details? You mean to disconnect water pumps "live" from Y2 and to connect both to one real switch as output? Neutral from both water pumps should remain as it is?
What will be input to real switch? Live which will be disconnected from YC? In that case from where should I take neutral for switch input? Or totally independent live and neutral from network?
Have the two Shelly 1PM fixed IP addresses? If so, are the addresses unique? Sorry if this question seems to be silly - but I‘ve reached nearly the end of my knowledge…
Yes and yes 
I think problem is within Daikin and wiring inside how two water pumps are connected.
Conclusion is:
if 1 Shelly is connected, then resistor needs to be connected to SW in order to work. That was my temporary solution until I didn't get second Shelly.
If 2 Shellies are connected, than resistor(s) need to be removed and SW needs to be connected directly. Only in this case SW switch will work.
Also, it is question why power consumption is 50W as it should be when 1 Shelly is connected with resistor and it is 0W when both Shellies are connected without resistors.
Well, some questions will never be answered. 
Which instance is drawing these nice diagrams? For sure, it is a home automation system!? And this let me ask another question: Could this system fail if only one Shelly is present? This would mean, we’re chasing a phantom - Shellies are working fine, but we identify faults in diagrams as faulty Shellies?
It is only measuring power consumption within Daikin and it is not dependent on any Shelly. I already confirmed that Shellies 1PM switches (SW) are not working correctly when only one is connected to water pump (but then I am getting correct power reading of 50W). When I connect both Shellies, switches (SW) starting to work but power drops to 0W.
So, when I installed 2d Shelly, switches (EDGE and TOOGLE) are working again. Very strange behavior and I don't know why it is happening like that. Also, it is visible from the picture that energy on 2nd Daikin channel is cca. 55W when only 1 Shelly is connected and it drops to 0W when 2 Shellys are connected. I am questioning myself is it healthy for my Daikin to work in such mode. I removed 1 Shelly around 12:00h and connect it back around 17:00h.
[Blockierte Grafik: https://i.ibb.co/x3HXjzL/Ostatak-DT.jpg]
"Toggle" switch is perfect and it fully reflects Daikin ON/OFF state. But I can bet that "toggle" did not work initially and that was the reason why I started this topic. I will further monitor switch behavior. In the meantime, screw on "O" pin get loose and now I cannot fully tight "O" wire. I will try to get another 1PM as substitute. Is it really such fragile?
And another update: as stated above yesterday both Shellys worked perfectly without resistors in EDGE and TOGGLE switch modes controlling two water pumps by app and by Daikin itself.
Today I removed one 1PM in order to replace it and I left second 1PM to be connected as yesterday without resistor and... surprise... SW is NOT working nor in EDGE mode switch nor in TOGGLE mode switch. I am again at the beginning and I cannot believe such strange behavior. I can only hope when I connect 2nd 1PM (new one after replacement) that both 1PMs will work as yesterday: without resistor and with TOGGLE switch.
Strange... very very strange...
Ok, thanks! Was a simple misconception, sorry for that! Agree with you for usage of Shelly 1PM. But you should consider to add the snubbers…
Can you, please, explain how snubbers will help me? What can happen to 1PM without snubbers?
Thanks, just to clarify, I am already monitoring 3kW pump (Daikin) with Shelly EM and two clamps. Two Shellys 1PM are only for temperature measuring and for water pumps which are cca. 50W, meaning through 1PM there is only 0,23A of current. Therefore, 1PM can be the choice.
Perfect! This is not a work-around - this is the solution! As I mentioned some seconds ago, the Y2 is a pure relay output. Hence, the resistors are obsolete. Obviously, the correct button type (e.g. „edge“) was the issue…
The issue with "edge" switch is that you have to be careful, e.g. if Daikin is ON and you turn OFF switch via app, then when you turn Daikin OFF, pumps will start running to ON. I want that pumps ON/OFF reflects Daikin command when Daikin is ON or OFF.
Please try button type „toggle“! Should work too - and would correspond exactly with the commands given by DAIKIN.
"Toggle" switch is perfect and it fully reflects Daikin ON/OFF state. But I can bet that "toggle" did not work initially and that was the reason why I started this topic. I will further monitor switch behavior. In the meantime, screw on "O" pin get loose and now I cannot fully tight "O" wire. I will try to get another 1PM as substitute. Is it really such fragile?
Addendum: We hear often about interference of Shellies caused by connected motors! Thus I would recommend urgently to install these R/C snubbers between terminals L and O of both Shelly 1PM:
I really cannot believe that pump which consumes 60W maximum can interfere with Shelly and can cause voltage jumps. Hmmmm....
Additional info: when I remove both resistors and connect both Shellys without resistor on SW, it is working (each Shelly is connect to separate cable, each one leading to one pump) but only when Button is configured as Edge to change state upon each trigger. I don't know, I am confused and little bit disappointed but this can be workaround although you need to take care shat is current switch state. I would like that Daikin fully controls pumps ON/OFF.
(a) take a picture of the A4P board, please,
Pictures are sent.
(b) check if one or both of the above given proposals leave an amendment.
Unfortunately, no. First proposal of 1 resistor does not work. The reason is that second live wire from Y2 is not connected anywhere and Daikin interprets it as infinite resistance which is the reason why it is not working. As soon when this live wire is connected directly to water pump, it works and I get back 10-50W on second channel but this is situation as I had with one Shelly. When I disconnect second Y2 wire, it is not working within Shelly and I don't have W on second channel although my both water pumps are working. Strange...
What distance lies between the to Shellies?
And by the way: what is the reason to switch the two pumps with Shellies? Do you want to activate the pumps without the DAIKIN? Or do you want simply to measure the energy used by the two pumps?
Distance is cca. 2 meters between them.
I just want to measure energy used by two pumps and that Daikin controls turning OFF and ON for pumps as it is doing now without Shellys. Therefore, I assumed that Daikin can behave as external switch just like you can control bulb with external switch connected to SW pin.
I know, if I want to measure only energy, another solution is to buy Shelly EM and 2x50A clamps. But I am also using those two Shellys to measure leaving and returning water temperature and I thought it will be convenient to measure pumps energy through them rather than buying another Shelly device which costs additional 70 EUR.
If I understand you correctly, you‘re using output pin Y2 of A4P board to control both pumps together? In this case, you’ll need only one resistor - you may connect the two SW terminals together with one end of the resistor (the other end is connected to pin Y2. This is possible cause live potential at terminal L of both Shellies is the same.
So, for the start to try such connection: SW of both Shellys connected together and to 1 resistor on one side. On another side of resistor, it is connected LIVE wire from Daikin (from Y2. And another LIVE from Y2 should be "in the air" isolated and not connected at all (currently it is connected with 2nd resistor to 2nd Shelly SW). If it is correct, I will try and let you know the result later on...
If it is working, it will be hard to keep such wiring forever because two Shellys are not close, they are separated.
Thanks for the clarification! Obviously, the DAIKIN Altherma is enigmatic… Do you have a link to an manual? It could help to get some information about this machine…
I uploaded user manual to my Dropbox:
Pumps are connected to PCB which is purchased separately and it is called A4P in manual or EKRP1HB. I don't think it will help to understand such strange behavior of Shellys.
Inside Daikin, my both water pumps "L" are connected to Y2 on A4P and "N" and "GROUND" are commonly connected to "N" and "G" on network. Strange is that I see from Daikin manual that "N" of pumps should be connected to pin 7 on X2M but I believe that Daikin experts connected my water pumps correctly.
Also, on YC terminal on A4P I have connected directly "L" and not through pin 9 on X2M like it is in manual. Again, I believe that Daikin experts connected it correctly.
At the end, I am not sure that chapter "space cooling/heating ON/OFF output" in user manual refers to connection of water pumps but I know where my water pumps are connected inside Daikin. Hmmmm...
